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Lack of Career Guidance in the Singapore Education System

Having been educated in Singapore since 1998 (Secondary 3), and having once been a trainee teacher under the Ministry of Education in Singapore, I feel that one of the many shortcomings of the Singapore education system is that it lacks proper career/education guidance for students.

Well, I suppose it can be argued that it is not the education system, per se, that is lacking, but rather an oversight (or nonchalance) of the Ministry of Education in thinking that people will know what they want, and will be happy with the choices that they made at the age of 16. But bear with me when I equate the education system to the Ministry of Education.

For those who are unfamiliar with the Singapore education system, let me briefly run through the route that most of us go through:

(Click for Larger Image)

Pardon the crudely drawn diagram and the omission of non-mainstream education routes.

At age 16 or 17, after taking the GCE O Levels, a student must choose whether he/she wants to go to the Polytechnic, where he/she will pursue a diploma in a specialised field (for example, Engineering, Business, Accountancy, Mass Communication, Nursing, Biomedical Sciences, Information Technology, etc) or to go on to the Junior College and study for the GCE A Levels examination or International Baccalaureate diploma. The GCE A Levels and IB diploma programme are essentially similar - students choose a number of subjects to study, from a pool of available subjects, such as Mathematics, Physics, Biology, Chemistry, History, Literature, Geography, Economics, etc. In other words, it is all rather general, and students are not limited to any particular field of study.

What concerns me most is when students choose the Polytechnic route. I am actually all for the idea of going to a Polytechnic, because I personally feel that the other route is a waste of time (having gone through it). But this only holds true if the student knows, at the age of 16 or 17, what he or she is interested in, and would like to build his/her career upon.

Which brings me to my point that we lack career/education counselling or guidance in our education system. Students are going into the polytechnics, choosing courses that they have very little idea about, and end up finding out that they hate the course. While some may quit the course and reapply to another course, most end up perpetuating that mistake, and pursuing careers in those fields that they dislike.

Hence, it is imperative that students are given a clear idea of what they are applying for, what options they have, and the different types of careers that they would have, should they pursue a particular course.

Students often choose courses based on the following factors:

Not knowing what they want
Friends’ choices
Parents’ choices
Ministry’s choices (when the MOE was actively promoting life sciences, everyone rushed to that course. Ditto Info-tech courses)
Not having a choice due to less-than-stellar O Level results

And students sometimes end up hating their courses because:

They didn’t know the course was going to be like this
They weren’t informed of the career choices (most who study the life sciences never figured that they were going to end up in the lab every day, watching cells grow or something)
They were given only an overview of what the course is about, but not in depth information of the various modules (more material should be given to students to read, instead of just an overview in the faculty brochures)

In which case, it becomes painfully clear that students lack career/education guidance, especially after the very general O Levels, and also the very general A Levels (these paths are named the General Certificate of Education, GCE for a reason), as it is after these examinations that they choose the specializations at the polytechnics or universities, which will affect their careers in the future.

Of course, breaking out of a particular field of study when you enter the work force isn’t entirely impossible, but isn’t the point of education to equip one with the skills and knowledge, so as to be able to efficiently and effectively carry out one’s job in the future? Would it not be a waste of resources to train an engineer, only to have him/her end up in another completely unrelated job?

The remedy to this, perhaps, is to reduce or minimalize errors at the stage of decision-making, and I do feel that it can be done through proper career/education guidance.

ETA: As I write this, it also becomes clear to me that perhaps it would be better for career guidance to be provided by a party that is neutral, that is not directly related or influenced by the Ministry of Education. But I’m fine either way (external party or MOE, preferably the former), as long as it isn’t provided by the school which the student is considering, for obvious reasons that they aren’t exactly going to be impartial.

Tags: A Levels, career, career guidance, Education, education counselling, GCE, International Baccalaureate, junior college, O Levels, polytechnic, Singapore education system, work

Education | daphnemaia | October 14, 2008 5:10 pm

62 Comments

By chaosdingo, October 14, 2008 @ 5:17 pm

gooooddd post!
By Wendy, October 14, 2008 @ 5:25 pm

How come uni is not linked to work directly o.O”
By Mintea, October 14, 2008 @ 5:25 pm

This is a very interesting post and I’m glad that you brought it up. I was one of those who chose the polytechnic route, in a course that I barely know what it’s about. I’m fortunate that I actually do like and enjoy the course I took.

The polys have open houses to help the students know more about the different courses but it’s up to the students to ask questions or any queries they have regarding the different courses. I guess having career guidance would be helpful to help the kids decide which path to take.

Maybe the schools might invite people from different industries to give a talk or something. That would have be very great if they had something like that when I was about to take my O levels.
By daphnemaia, October 14, 2008 @ 5:29 pm

@chaosdingo: thank you

@wendy: eh. oops! i forgot to link it! haha!

@mintea: yes, having talks like what u mentioned would be great, but what is also important is to help students find out that they can pursue a career in the field that they are interested in or pursue a career that leverages on their strengths. many do not know of the various career options other than what they already know (the usual, doctor, teacher, lawyer, journalist, etc).
By uzyn, October 14, 2008 @ 5:44 pm

Eh you missed the line from University to work, it’s like you can always be in uni and not get hungry.

I would like that if I could.
By uncle sha, October 14, 2008 @ 5:51 pm

My time there was no career counselors, must tikam which one is good or if the course sound macam power. Do they have counselors now in school?

There should have some kind of aptitude test to somewhat guess what you’re good at that’s being done in ang moh school

The path of our local academia focus very much dictates by what the gahmen wants or industry lack of.

Engineering was in dire need while back, so plenty of focus in enticing blur students .. me for one

Now we’ve transition thru entrepreneurship > biomed > etc

There’s plenty more than can be done for our local academia. Despite our claims of world class education, its mediocre at its best
By mlmaestro, October 14, 2008 @ 6:46 pm

It’s a well-written post. I have been thinking about it lately too, ‘cos career planning isn’t something that you can start thinking in the last year…and hope something concrete and clear come out of it. If I were allowed to go back in time, I might have picked the polytechnic instead of JC route…
By saga, October 14, 2008 @ 7:06 pm

well this is the educational system. the focus is on education, maybe they will includes modules as how to find and select jobs

one thing to note, it could be hard to ask the teenagers to define what they want to be at the early age. things changes very fast. just ask yourself this question, what do you want to be when you are in secondary school and what you are doing now?
By arzhou (adrian), October 14, 2008 @ 7:23 pm

Definitely need better career guidance from Secondary Sch onwards. I chose my uni course without much of a thought as well. I guess open house is a good opportunity to know more, but honestly how many students go to open house in uni and ask what are the career prospects, most come asking what is the entry requirement into the course (from my open house experience)
By Maria, October 14, 2008 @ 8:48 pm

It’s kinda similar with Malaysia education system too. But most of the Malaysians are ended up in O level standard. But the number of ppl going to college is getting higher year by year because their family able to support them.
By mavis, October 14, 2008 @ 9:13 pm

i have to agree with the rest that it’s a great post. i chose the polytechnic route because i was lucky enough to be able to know what i wanted to do when i was 16. although i was confident in the career choice i’ve decided to pursue, i still entered poly a little doubtful and not complete.

i just wish polytechnics made more effort in making the course descriptions on their website more comprehendable and easy to navigate.
By daphnemaia, October 14, 2008 @ 9:26 pm

@uzyn: yes, wendy pointed that out too! haha. rectified!

@uncle sha: hi! thanks for commenting! i do agree with u to a certain extent abt the aptitude tests. however, aptitude doesn’t necessarily translate into interest. my one bad decision was made because i thought ability will turn into interest (hence i entered NIE to be an english teacher, and later quit due to lack of interest). however, with such aptitude tests, it would also be easier to align their aptitudes with their interests and perhaps something useful might turn up. and yes, the government tends to promote what the industries are lacking in, and we end up with a surplus of graduates in that field, and a lack of jobs. brilliant forecasting by the ministry!

@mlmaestro: i agree! career planning isn’t only for those in the final year of study at the polytechnic or university!

@saga: that’s true, people change, interests change, and it’s hard to define a single track at the age of 16 or 17. however, i believe that students here are very badly informed, misinformed or not informed at all about the various career choices or jobs available! at age 16, did u know about marketing or what people did as marketing executives? did u know what actuarists did? did u know about the job scope of an operations executive in a manufacturing industry? what i’m saying is that we should have HR experts who know the various positions available in various industries to advise school leavers on the next step they should take, should they be interested in a particular field of work.

@arzhou: at open houses, people do ask about entry requirements, but that’s because of the other pitfall of the education system which places too much emphasis on examination grades! anyway, at open houses, people in a particular faculty (be it students, tutors or lecturers) are hardly impartial, are they? hence, it wouldn’t be a good judge of whether or not the course suits a person. it’s important to remember that exhibitors at open house have one aim, to attract the best talents to their schools, and hence, they are actually doing indirect sales. in this position, you wouldn’t say anything bad about your course / school now, would you?

@maria: well, malaysia has a whole load of other problems in its education system. for one, it’s got to think of how to keep the masses of its students in school, before thinking of further/tertiary studies or career prospects.

@mavis: yes, wouldn’t it help students a lot more to choose what to study if schools were to paint the whole picture of what is good AND bad for the students in the course? i would like to know or hear a professor in english say: “Oh, studying the english language at the university level is extremely dry, monotonous, and boring sometimes, but if u love the language, u will see the beauty of all that beyond the boring bits, and guess what?! the career options are boundless! you could be a writer, a teacher, a copy-writer/copy-editor, you could work in magazines and newspapers, you could work in communications!”
By chaosdingo, October 14, 2008 @ 9:36 pm

I was thinking, what’s the education like over at other, more ’successful in terms of education’ countries? maybe from them We can actually draw some inspirations?

Or is this a common problem faced by everybody?

I mean if it is, then i think it’s not really fair to just bombard the SG education system.
By daphnemaia, October 14, 2008 @ 9:53 pm

no one education system is perfect, but to me, a more successful example is the american education system. they may not focus so much on content as singapore’s does. but that’s the best part of it. it develops students’ interests and talents in other areas too. n if ur talent is in academia, they have advanced classes in high school for such students. n again, i must emphasise this, they do not have those kind of streaming where they dump students who aren’t so academically inclined into classes where no one cares abt them anymore, unlike singapore.

that said, i must say that there are a lot of plus points in the SG education system, as there are minus points in the american. but having gone thru a local education in singapore an an international school education, i’d say that i prefer the latter.
By Darran, October 15, 2008 @ 6:49 am

There is definitely a lack of it.

I had 4 friends who chose courses in their poly and are now regretting it and making a full switch. 3 years of their lives wasted for nothing, only to find out that they didn’t like what they were getting into. They based it on which is the potentially bustling industry. For e.g. during my time engineering was the most popular.

Open houses will only help you if you are extremely interested in getting to know but as mentioned before, we would probably only be asking how much it is the cut off point.
By yin, October 15, 2008 @ 10:17 am

i agree with most of the comments. i wasn’t so lucky to have career guidance counsellors when i was in sec 4. most of my decisions were made by my parents or heavily influenced by family members. i would have gone to np to major in mass comm but i took the long painful route of heading to a jc instead. these career guidance counsellors need not only talk to the students but to their parents as well. it’ll be beneficial if the kids could take a test of sorts to identify their strengths and weaknesses. least then they won’t go into an industry that would prove a waste of time because it focuses heavily on their weaknesses instead of amplifying their strengths.
By arzhou (adrian), October 15, 2008 @ 1:39 pm

I would say having career workshops in Sec Sch would be good, but to be honest how many people actually know what they want or really get serious about it at that age.

I only got serious when i reach uni
By Jakob, October 15, 2008 @ 3:09 pm

I guess I was lucky that I am in a career that I like. Never made it to JC because my grades weren’t good enough, and went the poly way. Sometimes I wonder where I’d be now had I made it then.

I do believe we are sadly lacking in the career guidance portion. Nobody ever said anything to me about what I gotta do in the future when I was 16 or when I was 20… and I think even if they did, it would have been demand-driven rather than honest unbiased recommendations.
By Kelvin Tan, October 16, 2008 @ 8:35 am

You are over rating the power of career guidance in my opinion. Even after university or a few years into the workplace, many people find that what they are doing is not what they actually want to do. They then make radical changes.

If that is already happening to 24-30 years old, it would be too much for 16 years olds to be sure what they want and like

Many life lessons, as well as knowing what you truly want, must be learnt “the hard way”. For example, they may say the grass is greener than the other side but you need to go and truly see for yourself.

What is more needed, in my opinion, is flexibility in people changing their courses. But that is not something MOE can do, other than raising the age limit for people repeating or going back to secondary schools or JCs, which I believe has already been done.
By kanigi, October 16, 2008 @ 10:11 am

Actually, I think the decision is made even earlier. Correct me if I am wrong.

At the Sec 2 streaming stage, we are already forced to decide between 3 pure sciences, 2 pure, sub science, Emaths, Amaths, etc. What you study in Sec 3 and Sec 4 decides whether you can study certain courses later in life.

For example, if you did not take bio in Sec 3, 4, you probably can’t study bio in JC, and hence can’t study related courses in Uni.

So at 14 yrs old, when you are likely to have no idea at all what you want in the future, you have to make decisions that will affect you tremendously later on in life.

For students going to Poly, at least they have until 16 years old to decide. Comparatively, they have a better chance of hitting on the correct path.

(I’m a poly student though. Chose art at 14 yr old and then did design in poly. Guess I am lucky that I know what I wanted back then and never regretted my choices. But I have lots of friends who dropped out at various stages of poly education and crossed over to some other courses, and cross over some more.)
By dizzydee, October 16, 2008 @ 11:29 am

Hi,

I agree with many of the points you are making. However, I would also like to point out that simply providing career guidance in secondary schools, universities and polytechnics won’t solve the problem. One of the other driving factors in my view is that the Singaporean education system leans towards a spoonfeeding approach and doesn’t encourage self-learning. We have teachers who answer their students’ inquistive questions with “Don’t worry, that’s not in the syllabus” and an exam system that encourages the use of 10-year series to achieve As.
Exploring career possibilities requires a constant reassessment of your skills and interests, coupled with some investigation through talking to friends, seniors from school, relatives, etc. Unfortunately, at the moment as far as I can tell there is little self-motivation towards this amongst most students in Singapore.
By Amelia, October 16, 2008 @ 11:53 am

hey my friends and I are doing something about this, please let me know if you are interested (Amelia at ameliacb@hotmail.com, 97581190)
By daphnemaia, October 16, 2008 @ 12:24 pm

@Darran: My point exactly. Time is wasted!

@Yin: JC was painful, wasn’t it? The academic part, anyway. I had some of the best years of my life playing in JC though. And my grades really showed it! Haha. But ok, seriously, you have an interesting point there. Parents need to go through career guidance counselling as well! Maybe then they will also find out about their children’s strengths, and help them develop in that area.

@Arzhou: Well, I believe that if we instill and inculcate this habit (of planning) in the teenagers, they may make better choices when the time comes. Of course it isn’t 100% effective. But students need to know that they take responsibility for their own decisions, because no one is gonna live their lives for them.

@Jakob: Not making it to JC often turns out to be a blessing. There’s a reason why there’s a cut off point in JC. JC is really meant for those who are academically stronger (in mugging) and less for those who work better on projects, etc. Poly is more well-rounded. A number of my friends went to JC, then ended up going back to poly after completing their A Levels. What a waste of time, eh? I’m glad things worked out for you, though!

@Kelvin Tan: Perhaps. But there’s 2 sides to a coin, isn’t there? Yes, people change, interests change, but by planning for their future in advance, students will learn also of the different opportunities out there, the different fields of work/study, and they may be able to plan career changes better in the future as well.

@Kanigi: Actually, you can get into Bio courses in JC/Poly without taking Bio at O Levels. You can also take engineering in Uni without having taken Bio at A Levels. As long as you have some science subject, it’s fine. Anyway, there isn’t any actual “proper” time for kids to receive career guidance. Planning is something that should start from young, I guess.

@Dizzydee: Hi, you have a point there. Spoonfeeding is, unfortunately, not only practised in Singapore but in many other Asian countries. Self-learning (just like Creativity) even has to be taught in school these days through various education initiatives. That spells that there is something fundamentally wrong with our education system. Constant reassessment - I like that. And you are right about it. If only there can be some way for us to install such programmes in school for students to reassess their skills (not through exams) and re-define their interests. Career guidance needs to include education guidance, then. It will help kids to learn more about how to achieve what they want, and how to get there, without experiencing loss of opportunities due to lack of information.

@Amelia: I will contact you! Thanks!
By Daryl Tay, October 16, 2008 @ 1:29 pm

I dunno. I don’t think any person in particular is responsible for my chosen career/interest paths. Certainly not my guidance counselor. (Yes, I have one, we have never spoken.)

I mean I’m in a business school, they want us to do business or finance or some boring crap like that. Is having one that will encourage me to go down a prescribed career path better than not having one at all?

I’ve found I’ve learned more from people who are not doing a “job” of advising me where to go. Casual people who have “been there, done that”, which is why I took the leap to follow my passion and end up in the entertainment industry, and then tweaked that a little more this year to work communication and social media into that.

I’ve had three batches of sec 4 boys graduate under my care at my volunteer work. Some of them have ended up in JC, some poly. Some ask me what to do, but frankly, as much as I know them, am I really the right person to give them advice? Surely the world outlook I had after O levels was very different after my A levels, which was very different after army, which was again very different in my first year of university, and now again very different in my last year of university.

From personal experience and personal friends, the people who I admire most are those who chucked aside the “guidance” of people, and stuck to what they want to do (provided they’ve thought it through properly),and really succeed in it.
By daphnemaia, October 16, 2008 @ 1:39 pm

@Daryl: You must have misunderstood most of what I have written. I’m not suggesting that a person place his entire trust on a particular individual or party (even parents) to decide his career/interest paths.

What I’m suggesting is that students have somewhere to get help / guidance should they require it, and that is why I also wrote that these persons conducting the counselling should not be from the ministry, nor any school. Then there’s less chances of it being biased, or advice that will get students to make up for what the industries in Singapore lack, won’t it?

As counsellors, guidance given should never be biased. If it is, that’s marketing, not guiding. And I also mentioned (in the comments above) that people change. But for particularly lost sheep, having some form of guidance from people trained to do so would help to ‘train’ them to do their own planning too. Plans change, sure, that’s understandable and even expected. But not knowing what to do after plans change is the real danger.

Also, accepting guidance doesn’t mean blindly following. That’s called spoonfeeding, and totally defies the purpose of it in the first place.
By Daryl Tay, October 16, 2008 @ 1:53 pm

Nono of course I know you’re not trying to say that. At the same time I think the way the article is written, it’s overweighting the importance of that (from my point of view).

And yes, it doesn’t mean blindly following, but between peers, a counselor and family, it might be a bit information overload for someone to handle at 16. It definitely would have been for me!
By daphnemaia, October 16, 2008 @ 1:57 pm

@Daryl: If kids can choose at age 16 to have sex (that is, legally) and to have children, I think choosing their future in terms of education isn’t a lot. At least it doesn’t affect other lives? Haha.

Well, okay, information overload might be better than under-informed, mis-informed, or having your world and future painted rosily for you, imho. At least they need to know their options!

There are a lot of lost sheep out there. At 16, 20, 24, 30. But if we start giving them information young, they might not be so lost at the later stages of their lives, perhaps?
By cl0udi3, October 16, 2008 @ 2:01 pm

Neither did I have any guidance back then in school, it was by peer pressure that you’re considered a good student if you entered triple sci class, or a double sci.

I’m thankful I had the full support of my parents for my own decision, joined the IT club back in sec sch, on to IT diploma, then to IT degree, and now, an IT job which I love so much. It was also by sheer luck that I hit the jackpot at age 12.

As for my siblings, they are influenced by this big sister. Younger brother is also in the IT line, and younger sister is intending to pursue IT. I’d say some are lucky enough to realise what they want to do, some preferred to being led by someone (which in my siblings’ case, is me) and hoping that someone’s choice for them is the one they like.

Counsellors, though there to help, are seldom being approached. All NTU students have an academic counsellor, who’s supposedly there to guide the student on career path other than just academic itself. But how many students actually seek advice of their A.C.?

“My decisions will always be right, I don’t need any advice.” Just how many students are thinking this way, realising they’re wrong only when they start disliking their job.
By daphnemaia, October 16, 2008 @ 2:13 pm

@cl0udi3 Ideally, career/education guidance counsellors should not be linked to any schools. This makes their views biased, imho.

If students don’t want to go to the counsellors, perhaps there is a reason that we should look into - is it because such counsellors are known for giving useless / biased information?

That probably means we need to re-define the whole idea of “Career Guidance Counsellors”.
By Scope, October 16, 2008 @ 3:02 pm

What is the use of education when people can’t think properly?
Ask yourself, when you were in Sec3, what would you suggest your students on career path?

When you were in A’levels, what would you suggest again?

When you were in Uni, what would you suggest yet again?

It’s not like it’s so simple. I have come across many suggestions on such, but there are all wasting time.

Do you know the market 5 years down the road? Do you know employers’ preference 5 years down the road? Some like Poly, some prefers Uni grads, some need ITE people…

The reality in school is that it is not possible to first forecast, and as a teacher yourself you should realise many teachers are not equiped well to think and are stucked in their admin more than their ability or leisure to observe their students’ capabilities or inate talents.

What you are saying is… Alright, let’s encourage you for trying to think but, it’s totally useless. When I tried to reason with you people at Ping.sg, that is the real problem. People are wasting my time.

You tried to advise the students of each level, fine… but can you guarantee their results by such ‘intervention’? You can’t. Excessive lawyers were produced, excessive IT people were also produced, and the real issue is, our education doesn’t produce thinking individuals with the right mindsets.

If we have such wonderful Career Guidance Counsellors, and you cannot guarantee that students will be employed to the skills (jobs) they learn in school, who will take responsibilities? Who will foot the bills?

Can you reason this out?

Inform is useless there are history to a fast changing environment. The critical is still, we need teachers who think properly, hence educate the population properly. They can bring about a better world and maneuver accordingly.

Don’t play god when you are near godly.
By daphnemaia, October 16, 2008 @ 4:13 pm

Arguing before you properly read (and digest) my arguments hardly shows your intelligence. So don’t argue for the sake of arguing.

I’m NOT a teacher. Please get that right.
By Scope, October 16, 2008 @ 9:30 pm

I am not arguing with you, I am just putting it as it is. I thot you said you are trainee teacher at Ping.sg? So you mean you never go on to be full teacher…

I have read your posting, and to the matter, I have come across many many similar suggestions as well.

Do you realise that this is ‘intervention’ you are suggesting when it is not possible. Which is like farting, smells, and nothing.

You also brought in a usual argument in American schools and such. I read those things here, and it’s not going to work. Not unless a thinking education is miraculous effected, then we can reoganise the social structure to the point that academic influence will be almost negligible. You got what I mean?

If you are not a teacher, at least try to use the brain, you know…

In reality, Singapore’s career choices are very very very limited, and people’s general exposure is also very very very limited, that’s as limited as it very very very small market size that… even Mr Goh Keng Swee was concerned about.

It’s not I have not digested. I know what you are trying to say. I am encouraging to think. But I am just telling you directly that this won’t work if you don’t understand the real concerns or limitations. We have an education, deprived of thinking and cultural capability for far too long, which is why I am staring at this piece of yours which shouldn’t be.

If we have a counsellor as you suggested, most likely, this chap would stil be blur like f***. If we are going to have people to counsel who they themselves are not thinking properly, why are we doing such things to confuse the students, to incur parents’ complains, and you know… schools will never want such troubles.

Even if I ask you now as a thirteen year old, and you are an experience adult in society for years, can you accurately tell me which career path should I study for? Can you ensure that your guide will be valid till I reach Uni?

And your guidance will not piss my parents? And who will be responsible if I go to Uni later only to find that employers are looking for poly grads? Or that I focus on sports, and I am ensured a Uni position, and a livelihood?

You can’t redefine Career Guidance Counsellors and hope that’d make people go for them. People would rather go to fortune tellers…

Now some regrets going to Uni and not poly, as commented. But in a different time, what happened was, if you go to poly, you only got less than 20% chance to be a Uni where jobs require you a local uni cert.

It’s the same as I assume that you were once a trainee teacher, now should be a full teacher to talk this. But you are not, I am wrong. But it doesn’t matter since no one’s future is messed up.

But a thinking education will minimise the stress on such minor problems, to focus on how to think on a major scale, a major route and maneuver accordingly. The real issue of Singapore is summed up as ‘cannot fail’ mentality. To break that, people don’t need career counsellors, people need to know how to think properly.

You have to think properly why you are agitated. It’s not that Scope is not reading or digesting. The point is, you are not realistic at all. Yours is not a new idea, my dear. Came across this too many times.

But the problem is, nobody can tell you before hand if Mr Brown will be kicked, and you should take up journalism from young and fill the vacancy. Or you should take up poly or not.

If education never is meant to be teaching Singaporeans to think properly, it’s useless if Scope were to ‘argue’ till cow comes home.

Have a nice day.
By Ivy, October 17, 2008 @ 10:31 am

Well, I’m didn’t go through the mainstream process of Singaporean education, since I spent a significant part of my life overseas, but I already see some problems just by looking at that diagram.

The first is just like you have pointed out - the lack of guidance.

But I see a far larger problem at hand. By secondary school, children are already given the stress of being inferior in their academic endeavors. Those who go through Normal Academic or Normal Technical mostly seem to end up in N level. Yes, given that these kids probably flunked their PSLE and primary school, but having good grades does not make a person. What happens to those literary geniuses? or Monet-to-be? Or even potential home-grown Olympic representatives? If they pull bad grades, there’s a high change they these potential leaders of our underdeveloped fields will end up as waiters or blue collared workers.

And let’s look at the flip side. The ridiculously smart kids with straight As could possibly just have an extraordinary memory. However, they lack social skills, leadership skills and whatever else that’s necessary to become the a future leader of society, leaving us with a bunch of idiots on top.

This is an extremely bad system that weeds out people the people who may have the potential to the Obama, Bill Gates or even Michael Phelps of Singapore who may not have realized his/her true potential until much later in his/her childhood/teenaged years. By having a meritocratic system solely based on grades, we have effectively gotten rid of field specialization in Singapore.

MOE, if you’re reading this, take it very seriously. The future of Singaporean society rests in your hands.
By Panzer, October 17, 2008 @ 12:53 pm

The lack of career guidance is very real in Singapore’s education system. The yardstick that parents, educators and government seems to take is, study to the highest levels and get a job that pays you well. Everything else such as interest, passion, what you truly LOVE to do doesn’t quite factor in since our country cannot survive on a nation full of artists and dreamers who cannot pay income taxes and CPF.

Majullah Singapura.
By don, October 17, 2008 @ 10:51 pm

Hi Daphne,

You have raised several good points, but here’s my opinion

It’s impossible to ascertain, at a tender age of say 16 or 18, which serious career path on which one wants to embark. Opinions on careers are almost always retrospective - No one will ever truly know whether any particular career path is suitable until one has actually experienced it.

Information is only useful insofar as it equips students with a theoretical understanding of what any one career path is all about. It is however close to impossible to impart a practical understanding of what it entails.

People’s preferences in life are moulded more by personal experience than by superfluous information. We can try to iron out this asymmetry by improving information flow and engaging students in career fairs, but there is only this much one can do.

Actually, what one studies in school need not be relevant to one’s career. Even graduates with very specialised degree - law, accountancy and engineering - end up choosing other options. Because degree ultimately imparts the soft skills, such as analytical, logical and thinking skills. In the working world, a totally different skill set is demanded and has to be slowly acquired and cultivated.

If we look at countries like the USA and the UK, we can notice a stark difference between their students and ours. While students in those countries tend to choose degrees that were aligned with their academic interest, students here instead opt for more practical degrees such as business administration. Students with humanities degree, such as linguistics and sociology, are just as highly valued whilst local students with these university majors tend to be relegated to the backseat in the competition for jobs.

It’s the inherent culture that sets our student populace apart from many other countries in the World. One can actually observe that it is essentially moot whether one “enjoys” his career path or not. In Singapore, pragmatism is the way to go and choosing the “correct” degree means studying something valued by HR departments, valued by employers, valued by parents [and relatives], and intrinsically useful in the corporate ratrace.

Of course, there are those who genuinely pursue such degrees due to interest but they are the minority. In conclusion, I would say that provision of information is important to correct this asymmetry. The onus also lies on students to actively find out more. However, in the end choosing a career path ultimately depends more on gut feeling, instinct, intuitive appeal, emotional appeal, hearsay, societal influences, parental influences, and above all, prospects of career after graduation. All things constant, most people will opt for degrees that guarantee a higher paying job, with the reality being that degrees that guarantee such high paying jobs are usually extremely competitive due to excess demand.

Cheers!
By KY, October 18, 2008 @ 12:39 am

Stumbling onto your website, I must say that this is although not a new topic to blog about, it’s significance is still major.

Society (Singapore) is definitely pragmatic and students may not be provided the correct avenues and information to make correct career choices. I choose the JC path, mostly because it was just the way to go…at least in my class/school. I did not know what I want to do in the future so going to JC was in a sense a very secure choice because the doors to other professions in the future would not be closed. Someone who goes to poly would not get the chance to do…one of the more perceived prestigious courses like medicine and dentistry. I sincerely don’t mean to offend anyone with my writing, I’m just stating facts.

My sis is a dentist while my bro is a lawyer. I’m 20 this year and going to finish NS soon. I have a place to study dental science in U Melbourne. My family should be considered…happy? Successful? The fact is…our career paths are not only shaped by our interests, but by family pressure and persuasion. Remember that our parents are also influenced by what their friends think about certain career choices. I dare to say that most parents are pragmatic and will dissuade their children to pursue courses which are not practical and do not rake in the big bucks.

My brother is not happy with his job. I sense his interest in law is fading too. His real passion is acting, theater but instead he chose to stick to a traditional profession like law. He’s hesitant to make the switch of profession because well…’there is no future for that in Singapore’. In Singapore, being a lawyer as compared to an actor/scriptwriter will provide the better career prospects and a bigger paycheck. In my brother’s case, he’d rather stick to something he dislikes doing but is getting paid for it than starting another career with no solid guarantee of success.

Lucky for my sis, she’s happy being a dentist and is leading a comfortable life.

I’m due to enter Uni next year…The thing is, I’m not a 100% sure that pursuing dentistry is the best choice for me. I guess that the decision for me to study dentistry was partly made by my parents. My folks, after seeing my sis being so carefree after graduating as a dentist, decided that dentistry is a very good career path and that I should pursue it. It’s not that I hate dentistry or anything, after all I did science at A levels and scored well (due to interest and partly mugging). Because I scored well in science (physics, chem, math) but didn’t do well in arts subjects (econs) naturally I should choose a science related university degree right? Well…that’s what my parents think, that’s what most people think. The big BUT is…what if my interest change? What if during my uni days I find that my true passion lies elsewhere? The career fairs and talks that I’ve attended only touched on the surface of what the different professions encompass, nothing in-depth. It’s not really helpful. It’s just that people like me (at age 20 and due to enter uni)…have not found their ‘passion and calling’ in life. I’m still a confused soul floating around aimlessly. I’m expected to know what I want in life at age 20? *sigh*

The people I really look up to are those who did not follow the norm and pursued their interests and dreams despite the difficulties and criticisms they faced. People like Sim Wong Hoo who got the guts to start Creative as a computer repair shop and the Singapore paralympians top my list.
By NW, October 18, 2008 @ 1:26 am

Great post, and I agree with with what you said. I was probably one of those who went through the system and recently graduated with heavy regret. After JC, where I had picked to study science in order to “give myself more options in the future”, I made the mistake of studying communications in university, naively thinking that I was ‘following my passion’ because I liked to write. The school was marketed well, competition was stiff so getting in was tough BUT there was just no value added because it’s not a professional degree, and while career prospects are plentiful it is simply sacrificing quality for quantity. So when I was 19 and looking at the world through rose-tinted glasses, I didn’t consider the practicalities [what jobs can this degree fetch/are these jobs attainable/ what would I REALLY be doing/ do I have a flair for this to become outstanding at it]…

And now I hate my job, and I can’t just quit ‘cos times are bad.

[I don't blame all this on the education system. I just hope other people make better decisions than I did]
By ssumin, October 18, 2008 @ 3:55 am

“Would it not be a waste of resources to train an engineer, only to have him/her end up in another completely unrelated job?” - GASP, that’s me!

I do regret my choice and did find it a waste of time since I went into a completely unrelated field. What would have been useful would be if we didn’t need to specialise till say 2nd year of uni. Find it more impt to do diverse modules - greek mythology, philosophy, design, etc (just throwing out random subjects) - and expanding our critical thinking skills and broadening general knowledge.

The education system here emphasizes too greatly on the maths/ science track from sec sch. Having said that, it’s understandable from a macro perspective. SG is heavily dependent on manufacturing/ semicon and we need to churn out people who are ready for these industries.
By daphnemaia, October 18, 2008 @ 12:04 pm

Wow. So many comments! Thanks for reading my 2 cents’ worth, everyone. It means a lot to me to have people discuss what I said, whether or not you agree with me. Keep airing your thoughts, no matter what it’s about - hopefully one day someone WILL listen!

Although I know my idea isn’t new, nor anywhere near radical, education is still something I’m passionate about. I am not a teacher, and there’s little I can do to impact directly the path of education any where, but because I’m in HR, I also believe that I can see a lot of problems with the education system we have, that the ministry and its schools do not see.

Hope that our next generation have it better than all of us did.
By don, October 18, 2008 @ 1:28 pm

@KY

It’s absolutely heartening to see someone in the same situation as me. I have a place to read law locally but [like you] I’m flooded with doubts and dilemmas.

I have talked to MANY people. My NS vocation involves interacting with NSmen. These people to whom I have spoken are all professionals such as lawyers, doctors, dentist, bankers etc. And despite 2 years of constant inquiries and incessant questioning,I have yet to satisfactorily reach any conclusion. I’m still no much better off than where I was 2 years ago.

Hence I agree with you that most conversations and career fairs only touched on the periphery of the nature of different professions. It’s quite sad really. So what I have done is to secure an internship in a law firm. This, in my opinion, is as close to understanding the profession as one can get. So my suggestion to you is this : Try to shadow a dentist/dental specialist for a period of 8 weeks. [I assume you are flying off to UMelb in Feb]. You will get a better, but by no means complete, picture of whether dentistry is your calling.

Like you, I admire those who take the less conventional road just so they can pursue their passion. Alot of my friends with triple science think of pursuing medical professions as a given, as a naturally assumed path by default. However, some of my friends chose to pursue their passion in individual subjects such as biology and chemistry, flying off to universities such as imperial, cambridge or staying in NUS.

I have always thought of a professional degree as a secure and practical choice. I am however more inclined towards an economics degree in my heart. Despite so, I have chosen not to do an economics degree because of so many discouraging comments from friends, family, and graduates who insisted that I do a professional degree to secure a good future.

@NW

Hi. I am very interested in what you have said. Do you believe that it is a mistake to pursue one’s passion? On hindsight, if you were given a choice again, would you have pursued something you like or something that was practical i.e a professional degree?

@ssumin

You said you regretted your choice. What then would you advice and caution people like me who haven’t entered university? What are the salient points we should consider before choosing any particular degree?

To both ssumin and nw

With the benefit of hindsight and experience, what degrees would both of you recommend that we study? What sound advice can you dispense to us rookies? Should we follow our interest, or simply do something that is of practical value?

Thanks!
By cowboy, October 18, 2008 @ 8:38 pm

hey don, how did you get a law internship? i’m desperate to secure one because I might be interested in reading law, but the law firms tell me they only take current law students and not ‘A’ level grads fresh out of JC. do you have any lobang, and would you be kind enough to tell me where to look?
By KY, October 19, 2008 @ 9:11 pm

@don

Yes, I’m flying off to UMel in mid Feb. Unfortunately I would not have the time to shadow a dentist. I finish NS in early Feb. I guess I’ll just have to take it one step at a time.
I guess for me I do not ‘hate’ dentistry per se, I just don’t know if it’ll be the right choice.
By free state, October 19, 2008 @ 10:34 pm

I think we need to look at motivation. A while ago, during reservist, I had the opportunity to talk with a school teacher on the current state of education, which included teaching primary school children on aspects of the new media like the internet, and blogging.

But what happens? The government gets their hands wet on teaching the young how to “blog responsibly”; the overworked teachers on the other hand, just want to get to the end of a work day to spend time with their loved ones, and since their paycheck is dependent on how many “A” students they get from the PSLE/O levels, they either try to bring the motion down prematurely or do bare minimal. The students then received a watered down curriculum and look forward to going home to play Xbox, or their Wii sets… Life is just a game anyway, who cares…

Then comes the blame game. This gets even better. The teachers will mention an out-of-touch government policy and disinterested students, and besides, they have better things to do with their time.. The students will mention a pointless curriculum… The government will talk about the measures they are taking to show their electorate that they are doing something (and tweak the results if need be)… It becomes a turkey dance, and we’re the turkeys.

Point is, this is just the tip of the iceberg. We need an overhaul of the system, which the government will never stand for, since then their bacon goes on the line… We’re not altruistic beings, we’re not God. Members in the parliament just think of new ways to impress their superiors, to get a promotion, just like your average supermarket check-out clerk’s ambition is to be a supervising check-out clerk, everyone aims a go at the biggest pay check they can bring home, so they can send their own children to prestigious Ivy League universities abroad on a government payroll and scholarship.

Career guidance? We get a blind leading the blind scenario. Bring in a bunch of guys who are probably better off receiving good career advice so they don’t have to talk to a bunch of disinterested kids on how they can be successful just to bring home the bacon? We all love kids, who doesn’t.

Then let’s look at what goes on in our Polys. Most students would rather get off with writing less essays and learning stuff that interests them. Board reviews are set up to ensure that the curriculum is set up to increase the yearly intake, and attract the more affluent school children. The less affluent goes to state-sponsored ITE. It’s a business, and the point of businesses is to make a profit. In the end, the curriculum gets watered down, and important skills that students can otherwise learn to survive in a competitive industry… Well, we just don’t care, do we? Polys then focus train “entry level technicians” and lowering their bar, since resources are otherwise, limited, or so they say… These “entry level technicians” go on to fill voids in the economy. That’s an education model.

Our system is not set up to nurture the best in our students. That’s just propaganda. We’re not set up to be some great state (what’s great anyway? Good paycheck for the government?). We’re turkeys, we do as we’re told. We’re democratic, just like Bahrain, the UAE, North Korea, China… In fact, better than them, because our ministers get the most pay. The education system is a result of having to meet a specific shortage of skilled workers and NOT train professionals or guys who want to build something out of nothing or break the social class that they were born into.. Our universities are pretty expensive for what we’re getting, 2nd class (1st tier by official standards), and we pile on education loans before we start working. Yes, mortgage our children’s futures. We’re not America. Period.

The mish-mash rubbish of an education system that you drew up, was designed by some moron, who probably based on the fact that he did something, got his promotion, and the model was redrawn to show off the otherwise excellent education infrastructure to foreigners.

And that’s entertainment, folks… I mean.. education.

“A rose by any other name would smell as sweet” -W. Shakespeare
By don, October 20, 2008 @ 1:00 pm

cowboy

it all boils down to luck, and also the way you approach them. I drafted one email and sent it to several firms. Only 2 firms consented to an internship, of which one required me to attend an interview prior to the internship. All the best
By cowboy, October 20, 2008 @ 8:17 pm

don,

I’ve already tried some without any luck - maybe it’s REALLY the way I approach them? How many firms did you try, and were the ones who replied big or small firms? I get the feeling that big firms are less willing to give internships to A level grads, since tons of law undergrads would be competing for internships at those big and prestigious law firms.

Could you also tell me which is the OTHER law firm that consented to an internship? Since you didn’t go to that firm, they might still have internship places open for me

IF you’re not comfortable with revealing all the details here, would you email me if I left my email address here? I will be VERY VERY grateful, I promise! You’d have saved me from 8 whole months of idleness before university, as well as helped me make up my mind abt law
By John Choo, October 21, 2008 @ 2:04 am

Personally, I don’t think the problem with students in Singapore lacking interest has anything to do with the “education” system per se.

I mean no matter how you tweak the system, it will be a simulation of the real world not the real thing. Beside the real world is not a structured one.

I for example, started out as a civil engineering graduate, then join the largely fledging IT industry, then switch to studying a bit a law, enjoy it as a academic exercise but don’t like it as a profession, and then move on to financial stocks trading some very minor investment banking experience and still doing programming as a sideline.

The problem I think is that Singaporean expect too much structure in life laid out for them.

And industries in Singapore also like to pigeon hold people. For example, if you see the Career pages, you have this must have “computer science” degree for a programmers job and “finance degree” for a banking job.

For me, I have been fortunate in that I left Singapore to live in UK, Canada and US where I learned that real life is not so structured. Whilst I was not fortunate in being able to study in the US, I have notice that US institutions of higher learning allow for people to leave and then come back.

For example, founders of Yahoo, Google were able to take leave of absence from their PhD or in the case of facebook founder from undergraduate level course. Even a member of the band queen was allowed to pursue his musical career, take a “leave of absence” and then come back after 20 odd years to complete his PhD.

If you look at my generations of early 80s graduates, like the Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, the notable ones, many left to found an industry where it did not exist.

Ok whilst these are notable ones, there are many just as many less notable examples. In the IT industry, many open source tech guru are not even IT graduate and some are Arts graduate. Some have gone on to start an industry out of free software and still make a living!

In the financial industry, you have people who were not “career” guided but in the end became gurus without the “relevant” academic qualification. Singapore’s imported US billionaire Jim Rogers did not have a finance degree specifically and like his former partner George Soros become financial gurus and started their own funds. George Soros then when on to dabble in “political” stuff like democracy and start and open society foundation. At the smaller scale, I have ex-colleage who were not financial graduates, starting up small scale managed funds, all self taught.

In the UK, I had the opportunity to enter law by qualifying for a solicitors license. And hey I don’t even need a law degree to do that. Likewise with becoming a barrister by sitting for the bar exams.

You see in all these cases, it is because you have a flexible systems both at the educational and jobs end. People can enter, leave and return. More importantly, you must have entrepreneurial people who are not only prepared to work for an industry but be prepared to carve out one. Sometimes it does not have to be a big one.

I know in Canada, some moms who want to work but can’t do so pooled their time together to help them form a virtual business to suit their maternal needs.

Unless Singapore students get out of this having a “structured” career path mentality and Singapore industry that does not emphasise “relevant” qualification, no amount of career guidance either by teachers or working professional is going to help.
By NW, October 21, 2008 @ 9:13 pm

I kinda agree with John Choo, but changing my mindset to something less “structured” is going to take a lifetime

Don:
I don’t think it’s a mistake to pursue your passion, but you need to know what you’re getting in to (I didn’t) instead of having rose-tinted glasses or being too shortsighted. If I could turn back time I would definitely have taken a professional degree, but that’s just me. If you’re interested in a particular field, it wld be great to talk to people who are in it to know if it’s suitable for you.

Hm, that sounded preachy. Anyway, the goal for me now is to make what I like practical…
By don, October 22, 2008 @ 11:44 am

John

That was an incredible piece of commentary. Thanks for the great insight.

Even though I agree with you on so many levels, it’s still quite difficult for students to change this “structured career path” mentality. This is due to none other than the other problem you have identified, which is that local industries emphasize “relevant qualifications” and tend to pigeon-hole people. Because of this ,students have no choice but to stick to specific degrees in order to succeed. Student mindset can only change when industries and government start to send out proper signals indicating that they are more interested in varied, diverse exposure, experience and qualifications rather than specific ones.

For some people, me included, their academic and professional interest diverges. I love economics and have interest in many other disciplines as well, notably those of the arts and humanities. Sadly, Singapore is unlike other countries. In UK, you can read philosophy, linguistics, whatever and still read the legal conversion course and be a lawyer. Or you can read the sciences and still be a corporate banker. In Singapore, close to zero. My senior who obtained a first class honours in social science [economics] from NUS got very cheesy job offers, namely middle office operations, a so-so stat board etc Its incredible.

@cowboy

I will drop you an email soon. If I
By don, October 22, 2008 @ 11:45 am

John

That was an incredible piece of commentary. Thanks for the great insight.

Even though I agree with you on so many levels, it’s still quite difficult for students to change this “structured career path” mentality. This is due to none other than the other problem you have identified, which is that local industries emphasize “relevant qualifications” and tend to pigeon-hole people. Because of this ,students have no choice but to stick to specific degrees in order to succeed. Student mindset can only change when industries and government start to send out proper signals indicating that they are more interested in varied, diverse exposure, experience and qualifications rather than specific ones.

For some people, me included, their academic and professional interest diverges. I love economics and have interest in many other disciplines as well, notably those of the arts and humanities. Sadly, Singapore is unlike other countries. In UK, you can read philosophy, linguistics, whatever and still read the legal conversion course and be a lawyer. Or you can read the sciences and still be a corporate banker. In Singapore, close to zero. My senior who obtained a first class honours in social science [economics] from NUS got very cheesy job offers, namely middle office operations, a so-so stat board etc Its incredible.

@cowboy

I will drop you an email soon. If I happen to forget, do drop me one instead.
By Tan Ah Kow, October 22, 2008 @ 4:16 pm

Don, John, and others,

Aya, you don’t need to look overseas to look for examples of people who were not career guided. In Singapore, there are already some trail blazers.

Look at Mr Brown, he not only had a career but essentially created an industry albeit in small scale when no equivalent exists! Before him you had Talking Cock!

If you go even further back in time, you have Sim Wong Hoo.

One of the key point to learn is that what you learn in academia will always lag what happens in the real world. Whilst I am not blaming them but teachers/lecturers/professors are basically themselves students of the real world. Their knowledge when they pass to you is at best second hand or if they came from industry, would be what they had experienced and not necessarily what is actually happening. As John noted schools or university is nothing more than “a simulation of the real world”.

Don, as for complain about Industry mindset, true it is hard to change it. But as Mr Brown has shown if you can’t join one, then make one yourself. That is the kind of entrepreneurial that one needs.

Also for students who don’t like what they are studying now, don’t worry its not the end. If you have to study what is practical now, just do it. If you have interest in other stuff, finish what you are doing and use whatever spare time to learn about things you like. In the West, you see many people do DIY either to cut cost but also learn about other things. You don’t need to do another “structured” degree course. You can do additional courses, even if they are not “recognised”. If it suits you requirement, go for it. More importantly, when you do all these courses to learn to network with people who are like-minded and who knows you can also form a group big enough to start an industry.

Bear this in mind, when people go to prestigious Institutions like Cambridge, Oxford, Harvard, etc, the value comes not from the degrees but ability to network with people often of influence.

Be less Singaporean, don’t wait for the system to change to meet your needs. It will possibly not happen. The only way things can change is You! So be a Mr Brown!
By KY, October 22, 2008 @ 6:22 pm

@don
‘Or you can read the sciences and still be a corporate banker.’
Is this really true for the UK? Please elaborate.
By don, October 24, 2008 @ 8:52 am

KY

It’s absolutely true. In UK, the university reputation and honours class matter more than your degree type. For example, my senior read International Relations at LSE and got a job offer as a private banker. And there’s this girl who read natural science at cambridge and is now an analyst at Goldman.

Singapore, not possible. If you are an accountant by training, you stand a much greater chance even though your competitors might have better grades. It’s all about degree relevance.

@ Tan Ah Kow

I agree with most of what you have said. Singapore does have its fair share of entrepreneurs, but the thing is these are exemplary cases that are few and far between. And I dont quite agree with what you have said about people going to prestigious university not for the value of the degree. Networking need not be done in university only, but obviously going to uni purely for networking purposes is pretty shallow. The value of a degree from Ivy League opens up immense opportunities and this is why people go to thess unis, aside from other reasons such as wanting to be a researcher/professor.
By Tan Ah Kow, October 25, 2008 @ 6:12 am

Don,

I have to say that I had expected you would respond the way you did.

On the point about entrepreneurship, I see you have seen view that trait in a very narrow term — i.e. entrepreneurship as something special. You should see entrepreneurship is nothing special. In its raw form, it is all about overcoming constrains. Life at all level is about overcoming constrains, so whether we like it or not we have to be entrepreneur even in something as mundane as developing a career.

When I pointed out Mr Brown as a case in point, what I am pointing out is how he took the initiative to overcome the constraints so he can eventually do what he does now. I don’t mean everyone can do exactly what Mr Brown did.

Take your case as an example. You said you like economics but should that stop you from pursing that love. Why not start a blog and begin commenting about economic issues. Focus on Singapore’s. Who knows in time to come you views could be acceptable. This is an example of entrepreneurship — over coming your constraints in order to achieve your goal.

On the point about getting a degree from prestigious university, let me say that I live and work in the UK or London specifically. I have to say that people in the UK are really not that asked about the kind of degrees you got. The only exception is when you do get jobs specifically require it such as researchers/professors. Even so, in some universities, even prestigious ones, you have Professors that only have basic degree no postgraduate. That is because, these people have earned their respect from other route, namely, through the making their work known and most importantly networking.

And the fact that you come from a prestigious university ALONE don’t get you anywhere unless you are prepared to work for it and leverage on the network that you have developed.

Also opportunities don’t come to you. Neither does it come with your degree. You have to seek it out and most importantly if presented to you to seize it. I know of a few people who graduated from prestigious university expects the world to come knocking at their door step but in the end did not happen.
By hanzahar, November 3, 2008 @ 6:14 am

I don’t mind having a job what the foreign worker does e.g building roads,collecting garbage

the problem with this occupations is that the pay is too low to survive in Singapore

I heard such thing as environment office in the US whereby these people are respected for cleaning-up the neighborhood why not in Singapore?
By brokenshardz, November 5, 2008 @ 9:03 pm

@hanzahar: it is all about perception of the people. In US, I suppose, these jobs are occupied by locals (by what I mean is Americans, true born and bred there or not, I won’t delve further) who do their jobs well, remarkable or not, in order to get the pay they deserve. In Singapore, the majorities of the cleaners I see around are foreigners, employed to do the ’shit’ we do not want to do. They are paid lowly and no one enjoys an association with ’smelly, stinky’ cleaners. The locals employed are no better off. With foreign workers drawing low salaries, do they dare to ask for a higher salary? No, most probably they will just do the bare minimal. And the cycle goes on. This results in creating a perception that the cleaners aren’t worth the respect here, while those who work hard demand the respect.
By brokenshardz, November 5, 2008 @ 9:34 pm

the counsellors are always there. however, there is a perception that whatever the students tell them, they will report or gossip about it, even though the truth is completely oppposite.

another reason is the thought of consulting strangers may give shudders to one. People would rather put their trust in others they know, even though the others may not have a clue about anything.

lastly, there is always a doubt about whether do the counsellors know what they are ’selling’? Their primary role is to counsel, to give advice. But have they went through the job(s) before? Even then, those who jumped ship from their old jobs to be career guidance counsellor or plain counsellor maybe baised for or against their old job. That still leads to the same situation again.

I agree that career guidance is a must, but cannot be specifically placed at a single level of education. In primary school, I just want to play; in lower sec I thought of accountancy, before thinking of IT in upper sec; in JC, I first thought of focusing math alone before heading back to accountancy. But where I am now? Waiting to attend Information Systems Management in SMU while doing NS, due to inadequecies in my academic results. But is it a course I like or even want to attend? May not be. The wishy-washy during my formation period is due to peer influence and external stimulus from new environments. The career guidance lessons I had as a student don’t help much as most are conducted by teachers, who obviously using stock propoganda. “So what you want to be? A laywer, an accountant…?” No mention of the ‘non-performing’ careers. It would be interesting to hear teachers going, “Be an artist, singer, musician, blogger.” Most of my classmates drifted off to their lala land before 5 minutes were up.

I prefer aesthetics, but I hate to say that I can’t develop a career path in there becuase whatever I learnt is half-past 6. To qoute a fellow NS mate, “We have put the points into the wrong skills.” (Think in the RPG way). Life so far is not like a RPG game where we can choose the stats of the character we control. Where the mouse clicks is where our peers, our parents says so (or even the gvt).

The best form of career guidance, in my opinion, is actual exposure to the work of the intended profession during holidays. Not only the students can gain insights into the jobs, also knowledge and experiences which school cannot provide.
By hangman, November 11, 2008 @ 12:04 am

well i’ve met students who neither wanted guidance nor thought that they needed it. despite kind reminders that listening to somebody talk for a while, boring or not, never killed anybody.
oh well.
By don, November 15, 2008 @ 12:42 am

Tan Ah Kow

I respect your opinions but I still disagree with you on so many levels.

I have not seen ONE SINGLE tenured professor with only a basic degree in a UK prestigious university, such as LSE, oxbridge or KCL. Those who have basic degrees can only teach as lecturers or teaching assistants. I wonder where you get this from. Please don’t throw false information into this discussion and pass it off as cold hard truth, when it clearly isn’t.

Please also don’t put interpetations or words into my mouth. I view entrepreneurship as entrepreneurship is, that is, the practice of starting a new organization or business. It seems to me that your definition, and intepretation, of the term is the “anomalous” and idiosyncratic one. You view it as “all about overcoming constrains”, which isnt the correct literal definition but instead your own idiosyncratic definition, which no one need abide by. All I’m saying is that while there are definitely successful entrepreneurs locally, these people aren’t many. For every one successful entrepreneur i.e sim wong hoo, there are hundreds of others who fail.

Lastly, I strongly disagree with your over emphasis on networking. Networking can be done anywhere, and more so in firms, seminars, exchange trips, in your job. You don’t go to university for networking for goodness sake. You network by undergoing internships, industrial attachments and temporary placements, and these are all jobs OUTSIDE of the ivory tower. You go to university for the knowledge, for the internship opportunities, for the degree to open up career doors.

Of course, having a degree from prestigious university wouldnt guarantee success. It all boils down to individual, but seriously speaking, if a student can make it into harvard, and graduate, do you think there’s a high chance he will fall in life? I don’ think so. For the intelligence and tenacity that brought him through the tough admissions process and tough learning experience in school will serve him for the rest of his life, career or otherwise.